Receivers from BRP

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Der Alder
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by Der Alder »

Depending on how much of your shroud is left after its square, is what determines for me where my splice will be. My first build was right under the camming piece to the rear of the pads stamped into the shroud. This last one I'm working on was a tad longer after it was squared so I'll have the splice just behind the camming piece.

It really comes down to what you feel is easier for you. There is really no wrong way, just comes down to what works best for you. But IMO, if you have the camming pads there, I'd splice past them. This will make it easier to install the camming peice, otherwise you'll need to do a lot of grinding to get it fit back on.

Big thing is keeping it straight and the correct length.

I then trim the GM shells to fit the shroud.

What I meant was for better penetration a slight gap helps....depends on your welder though I suppose. Mine is marginal (90 amp) so I both bevel and put a thin slot at the bottom of the bevel so that I know its penetrating all the way through. I also hit the inside after I open up the top. Much of it you can get to, but bear in mind the insides (sides) will need to be flush for the rails.

I'll post some pics to show you what I mean from the one I'm currently working on:

This first one is after it was cut and much careful hand fitting. The lines on it are not welds, but paint and markers. The joint was so tight no light could shine through and no rocking when it was done with fitting.

First I cut it close cutting with a dremel, then I square using a combo of a squaring tool, measuring (you can use the camming piece there to help) I hit it on a belt sander till it was close and keep checking it for square (again by hand), I place it (both end splices) on a piece of window pane glass, once its close I'll do the final fitting of the two with hand files, check it with a straight edge where you can) and getting the length set as well. Again getting all the rocking out when the two stack on each other, while keeping an eye on the length as well. This is why I cut it a little long at first. By time they are squared and fitted the length should be close.

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This next was after I was satisfied with the measurement and fit and [prepping it for welding. I cut bevels on my carefully fitting seams with a bench grinder (just the centers for now), then I took a piece of threaded rod and tighten the two parts together again checking them for straightness. I then cut a thin slot in the bevel's bottom for penetration. I left the corners intact to support it for now. I'll just tack the corners for now. Later after the sides are welded up I'll go back and bevel the corners with the sides now supporting them and weld them up the same. Then with the top opened up I'll weld the inside where I can. Inside the gaps you can see some copper as well.

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I usually start though by fixing the front bushing using the RTG MG3 type bushing which is super easy. I can show you how I do that as well if you want. Doesn't really matter, but thats where I start. I have more pics too of the hand fitting process I use as well. I'll post some measurements and locating points for you tomorrow if get a chance.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by Intruder196 »

I've been away from this forum for years. It's good to see somebody doing a build. I cant recommend enough the BRP bolt body. I built mine back in 2005 and copied their first bolt version only to have it not be durable enough. Over the years I suffered breakages that almost made me want to dump the whole thing. Then BRP came out with version 2. I bought one in 2013, fitted it to my gun and it has run perfect ever since.
I also used screws to hold my rails in place. My rails were used. So I had to remove the remains of the old rivets and tap some threads. I loctited them in place. I converted my grip stick to copy the BRP grip. It's still holding up. If somebody was making semi auto ones like the BRP made one, I could have saved myself some trouble.
Best of luck on yours.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

Der Alder, unfortunately the camming widow pads are going to be hard to salvage. The torch cut is crooked in the top area where the top cover and feed tray would go. I guess I could cut the GM piece crooked to match to try to save it. I can see where doing the front bushing is a good place to start, as it sets the front limits of length. I'm just not sure about the pads, don't know if they can be saved.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

Hi Intruder, and thanks for the input. I checked the website, and the second gen bolts are out of stock. I hope BRP starts making parts for us again. Der Alder, form what I can tell from your pic, the two GM shells are welded together before you start any fitting? And it looks like the ejection port has been cut out too? Hope I'm seeing this correctly. And, yes, please sens any and all pictures you might have, as they truly are worth a thousand words.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

I went back and did some more "eye balling" and it looks like I'll be able to salvage the camming pads by cutting very carefully. At this point my front shroud still has the barrel removal door and rear sights attached, and I'm wondering if I can leave these pieces in place, or if they need to come off. The rails that came with my kit are slightly bowed so I guess buying new ones isn't a bad idea. Der Alder, if you could send me a shot of your rails in place and the screws you used to set them in place it would help me to see things more clearly. After looking at my shroud, I can see what I thought was the ejector port is really the barrel door opening. Pictures really do help. I downloaded the build info from the BRP website, but the pictures in that are too small for my old eyes. And I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but what is the "normal" finish builders usually apply to these? I guess since I'm going to get the .308 conversion and the tail piece from the M3 my build will resemble the M3. What identifying traits will need to be added to get that M3 look? When removing the barrel door, do you replace the rivets with bolts? I've never had a lot of luck getting a rivet to look "factory correct".
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Der Alder
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by Der Alder »

Without seeing what you mean, I would cut just enough off the shrouds end to square it, then trim the GM shells to match it (later). Cutting crooked to match the parts IMO would be hard to keep straight. It's hard enough just to make it square and straight with flat surfaces (by hand), adding an angle would make it harder IMO.

Worse comes to worse you can always build the camming pads back up on the new section and then refit the camming piece, it just takes more work that way. Your odds of staying straight will be much better, the better the parts fit. This is why if you fit it correctly and just draw it together with a threaded rod a jig is not needed. Now if it was a 3 or 4 torch cut receiver that would be different as well.

The biggest things to focus on IMO is one, making your welds strong enough, while two keep it straight and three watching your measurements/specs. What ever the best method is that can achieve this is a really all that matters.

These guns can be somewhat forgiving and you can be a little off, as in a mm or 2 two long overall and you can even be out a little in straightness in some areas. But IMO watching your lengths and keeping it as straight as possible from the getgo will make for a better gun in the end. Tolerances being off in one area a little is usually not a big deal, its when they start stacking up is when they will bite you.

Other than squaring up the front and rear of the shroud, don't start cutting anything yet so far as the GM shells. I'll get some pics up and post some measurements and locating points. If you want we can start in the front and work our way back. No need to remove the barrel door or rear sight block. No need to re-rivet any of that so long as the ones you have on it are ok.

When you say M3 I assume you mean MG3? There are a lot of different parts, but it really depends on what era of gun you want it to look like. IMO like mine, it is just a franken clone, so as long as it looks close that is good enough for me. But you can build a close replica, just depends on much you want to put into it.

I could list all the different MG3 parts (there are lots), but for somewhat close looking clone; If you get the MG3 conversion kit from RTG it comes with the Flash hider (has a built in booster nozzle), barrel bearing (they are meant to work together), barrel, top cover and feed tray. You may as well grab an MG3 drum or 2 and some belts, they have those 120 round green box drums too which are neat IMO. You could get some DM-6 links too of you want to try them if using the MG3 top cover (but not with the MG1).

You could add the MG3 AA site if you like that look, but not every MG3 had one. If using the rear MG3 section you could use the MG3 recuperator too. Also the MG3 buffer and bakelite butt stock as really nice in comparison to the yugo stock. You can get a MG3 camming piece, but they fit a little loose in the yugo window and if you already have a matching yugo CP, I'd just stick with that, no one would ever notice.

You'll want the RTG MG3 front bushing for sure. Be sure to get a used one, the new Reinmetal ones are not fully finished. That and get the MG3 new rails too if planning to screw them on. You could get a MG3 bipod if you wanted it to look closer as they are quite different in looks. But they are not adjustable like the older yugo type, so that's up to you if it worth it. I got one for my last clone build. You can switch the rear sights, but on mine I just finished the sight black and painted the numbers in yellow like an MG3, it looks like an MG3 rear sight even though it not. Course its not calibrated to .308, but IMO for the type of shooting I do with this gun I don't care abut that. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but those are the highlights for a MG3 clone build. Oh and grab a new recoil spring too.

I've got some tips for rail alignment, but we can get into that later too. The short cut methods I use will need no rivets, so no worries there. If you use screws in the rails and the MG3 rear stub there will be no riveting, except for maybe the one long one on the camming piece and that won't be till after its tested and finished. For finishing, if sticking with the do it your self method theme, you can either cold blue it or do like I did on my last one and use Brownells Alumi-hide II which turned out great. Not exactly original, but it works for me;
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I'm gonna be gone most of the weekend, but I'll try yo get some pics up Sunday.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

Thanks again for all the great tips and guidance. Enjoy your weekend, and I'll try to stay out of your hair. I've got car troubles right now, so funds I had intended to spend on the conversion kit will have to go elsewhere. I still need to pick up quite a few parts to even get started.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

Well Der Alder I finally was able to pickup a few new parts. I got the front piece for the shroud, the used one as you recommended. I also sprung for the DELUXE .308 conversion (ha,ha ha). It had so many good parts, and with the cost of the 8mm barrels at $300 it really was a deal. If the cost of the 8mm barrel ever comes down I'll buy one just so I have both complete kits. But that purchase pretty much broke the bank for this month. Social Security checks only go so far. But at least I can start working on the shroud when the part gets here. Being looking at Harbor Freight for a belt sander with a stand, since I don't own one. I'll get there sooner or later.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

I know I should have taken before and after shots, but I did take my first step toward my build. I cleaned up the front of the shroud, where the torch was used to cut the nose piece off. Someone got a little over zealous and cut a bit into the shroud, but I think the area will be covered by weld once the new nose piece is in place. I also began squaring up the rear section by the camming windows and pads.
Which brings me to my first question of major concern. How do you determine the barrel shroud is level so the butt can be ground square? The sheet metal is tapered front to rear, but it seems to be fairly level when placed on a flat surface in an upright position. Am I correct in this? And I know I've asked this before, but as a noob I have to ask again. Should the receiver pieces be tacked together and then cut and squared to match the should? And if so do you lay-out and mark the rails first? And since I'm admitting to ignorance the cutout for the cocking handle has me stumped. I've reviewed the build info from BRP and it doesn't seem to make sense. Does anyone have a picture of it's location and size I might see? At least for me pictures are worth a thousand words, and I've got to believe that at least marking the area of the rail location prior to assembly is helpful.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

This is an open request to all members. I've been reviewing all of the posted builds by other members, and have learned enough to know I need to learn more. I've been unable to reach DerAlder, and I want to move ahead with my shroud, but want to be sure that I'm doing this correctly. The front piece I'm using is from RTG, its a used Rhinemetal part with the tapered shoulder. The end that goes into the shroud is too large for the opening in the end, after I removed the torched off stub. Does the Rhinemetal part need to have the shroud cut back to accept the new piece, or do I cut a notch in the shroud and slide the new piece in from the side? I could use a demel tool with cutoff wheel, which will minimize the amount of metal lost. After slipping the node piece in, I could use the piece I demeled out as a plug to replace the void and then weld up the nose. Since my shroud still has the barrel door intact, I should be able to set the barrel bushing in place and slip the barrel in to test for length, correct? And the next question is, I purchased a .308 conversion and seems to have one less part than the 8mm. The flashider is a bit different, and the barrel bushing fits inside it without the recoil booster? Or am I missing a part? Sorry to be asking so many questions, and thanks in advance for your help. This is such a cool piece of ordinance and I really want to do it right.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

Okay here are some pictures of my limited progress. As you can see the rear isn't quite square, but it's on a towel so its a bit worse in the picture. It's really about.050" off. And the nose shows the torch cut areas. As I said, it appears to be fairly level when sitting on a flat surface.
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Der Alder
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by Der Alder »

I've been away for a while with hunting and getting ready for winter. My wife keeps making plans for my spare time..lol.

Thats cool you got the parts from RTG. The front bushing probably seems too large because you most likely need to trim back the front, but first we need to determine how much needs trimmed. We'll get to that shortly. Looks like you have plenty on material in the rear of the shroud.

That said, everyone does these a bit different, but I'll tell you the order in which I build;

I'd start by degreasing the parts kit. After that grind the slag from the torch off the camming area if you have any that keeps you from being able to fit the C/P on. Fit your camming pieces onto the shroud (temporarily). You may have some warpage from the torch cut/demilling, you want the camming piece to fit tight though. If you do need to file a little to get it fit, do not file on the camming piece, file the shroud only where needed. The camming pieces are very hard and etching them by filing or grinding could cause them to fracture later.

With the camming piece in place and a temp rivet slipped in, the camming peice will be the main source of your measuring. This will allow you to put your barrel in in order to figure out how much to trim from the front of the shroud. The camming piece will be a consistent locating point to measure from later too. As a matter of preference I don't trim the rear of the shroud till I get the front done...so I wouldn't focus too much on that at the moment.

Here is a good pic (not mine) of some measuring points BTW;
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The Yugo shrouds I have used have been plenty long enough when combined with the German MG3 bushing, in fact they have required trimming to get them short enough to specs. Yours looks like it should be long enough. Next is to check it.

Cleaning up the inside after removal if needed;
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Trimming and fitting the shroud for the front bushing;

Keeping the front of the shroud's face flat and square for the barrel bushing is important to avoid barrel binding. When squaring I used a piece of flat glass, standing it up. But first we need to measure, see pics below for that.

You can check it with a level as well using the rear sight block, which is one of the few flat areas on this shroud you can locate off of with a level.

Its not a super accurate method and you can only check it up and down, but it gives you an idea on how square you are on the front edge. There are better ways if you have the tools, but I'll show you what works for me with what I have to work with using hand tools;

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Using a belt sander flipped around in my vise;
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^Its important to pay attention not to tip while sanding and keep checking while trying to get close to the amount you need to trim off.
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There are several ways of fitting/trimming it, I like to check it several ways to make sure I'm within specs.

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^You can measure from the barrel stop inside the gun to the front edge, which should be close to 19.5”.

Another method, one I like to use to double check before doing any welding is you can place the bushing into the shroud (the MG3 type has a lip that fits nearly perfect into the Yugo opening). Install a barrel bearing into the bushing's lugs and pop your barrel into the camming piece and latch the door. Hold the new bushing in place and using gravity let the barrel move forward to the forward stop. Tilt it back and let it slide to the rear stop. You should be getting 13mm extended and 8mm retracted. This particular spec is only valid using the 8mm type bearing. The .308 bearing in longer and with throw this spec off. Though you can switch to the MG3 type barrel bearing later this should be noted. You just don't want to set up and trim using the MG3 type bearing unless you use an offset number, so just fit it with the 8mm bearing for now. Like most things on this build if you are going to err is better to be a tad on the long side than short.
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Once you are sure you are in specs and the barrel is gliding freely without binding, tilting it back and forth, remove the barrel and bearing.

Grind a bevel for the weld around both the the bushing and the shroud. Taking a piece of threaded rod, some washers or something to draw them together and hold them tightly we are ready to weld. I like to cover the surrounding weld area with some scrape metal or aluminum foil. When using a wire welder like mine this keeps the clean-up spatter to a minimum. Also make sure you have the bushing oriented correctly. Looking at it from the front the slot on the front edge of the MG3 bushing should be at 3 o'clock;
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More than anything you want to avoid warpage when welding these guns so keeping excessive heat to a minimum is a must. Tack weld the Bushing on opposite sides (4). Now connect the dots, only going about a 1/2” on one side side then the other and so on. Allow it to cool down till you can touch it after a few welds to keep from over heating. Think of stitch welding like torquing a head bolt, allowing the contracting metal to to pull evenly. You do not want a continuous weld all at once in order to avoid warpage. This is the same technique you will be using on the receiver too BTW.
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If you kept it straight and in specs earlier it should stay that way when its done if you are careful. Clean up your welds on the grinder and sander. Don't grind it flat or you will loose strength. The German post war front has exposed welds for this reason.

After a bit of sanding;
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I put some cold blue on it just to see how it would look though this is not the time to put a on finish.
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I'm a better grinder than a welder...lol In the end it turned out decent though.

That should wrap up the front other than the front sight which we can get to next.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

Wow thanks so much. You pretty much answered my questions on the nose piece and how it would fit in place. The measurements in millimeters throws me off, as everything I have is inch pattern. I'll have to do some conversions because my pee brain won't comprehend otherwise. Thanks for the shots of you actually doing the front piece and your belt grinder setup. I think I'm going to Harbor Freight and pickup one of their combo units that has a belt grinder and a disc grinder on one chassis. Hope my pictures were clear enough for you to see my meager progress. I'd like to get the front piece done, and I'll be doing as you suggested working front to back. I need the grinder to square up the camming area, but what I have there in the picture was done with my 4"right angle grinder and a file. I'm a madman with a file.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by Der Alder »

Yeah, yours is looking good. Looks like you have a nice shroud, the rear is cut decent. Many are cut shorter through the camming window. Yours is what I look for when buying.

I've found a lot of measurements for these guns are a mix of metric and inches. Thats probably due to many come from German manuals while others come from the semi conversions process in the US. There are lots of online converters you can type them into, which is what I do, depending.

When squaring (this along with the front is why I like to install the camming peice first), you can put the C/P on and take a dial caliper and going by the lowest point square the rest of it to that point if you know what I mean. This will get you close, but will still need some careful fitting, at least when doing it by hand like this.

You want to keep it as long as possible IMO. If you have enough length you may be able to keep your splice weld behind the C/P. this will save a lot of grinding if its not under the C/P.

When you get to that part I'll post up some pics of what I mean which will explain it better. Biggest thing is to go slow and take your time.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

When you're welding the the shroud and receiver together do you get much weld flow into the inside of the chassis or body of the gun? I can see where this would be a problem, not much room to get a grinder inside there. I'll be working on the front piece this week and post some pictures so you can see how it comes out. As I said before, I need to get some kind of grinder/sander /something so I can square up the shroud. And thanks again for the posts. I really need them to get me started on this. I'll try to get the rest of my parts this month, the rear section, block piece and new rails. I set an email to BRP and got a response from the owner. He said he is making new second generation bolts now so he should have them available soon. Definitely will be buying one of those, and the AR trigger too. And good luck on the hunting. I can't get out anymore, couple of heart attacks took that privilege away from me. I can still get around, but trudging thru the woods is more than I can do.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by Der Alder »

On the welds getting inside...generally you can get in the areas you need to if you need to grind some with a dremel and a stone. What I like to do is through out the milling and cutting processes is save the partly used dremel cut off wheels. These can be used to get into tight areas if need be. Also some good metal working hand files can be very helpful when fitting too.

The front bushing will not be an issue in this regard (welds getting inside), at least not with the type I've shown. The shroud/receiver splice area can usually be smoothed out where the rails go from either the barrel door opening and or the top of the receiver which is opened up wider near where the splice is. I like to weld on the inside of these splices where possible just to be sure I get good penetration.

If you use the RTG rear MG3 stub and have a 2nd splice, its a little more tricky to get in back there where the splice is, but again there is an enlargement of the top opening close to there in the rear under the cover. My wire welder tip is small enough to get in there though its tight. The only weld areas I'd smooth out on the inside are where the rails go and recuperator.

On the semi auto parts I recommend the BRP parts. Some guys make their own which saves money and can work well, but for a first time builder its going to be difficult enough just building the gun without making a FCG and modding a B/C for semi auto.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

I'm in complete agreement with you on the BRP bolts. That's why I knew it was good news to learn Brian at BRP was in the process of making new second gen bolts. Several other members had said they would like to purchase them once they were back in stock. As I had said earlier, I'm working on getting the front of the shroud squared up, and will be posting photos of the shroud for the memberships review. I'm still acquiring the parts needed to be able to assemble the finished product, even if I'm no where close to finishing. I want to have all the parts I'll need so that once the receiver is done I can trial fit all the other major components.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

So I've been busy at home. The torch cut on the front of the shroud was a bit deep, and after cleaning up and leveling it's left me a bit short.
shroud nose.jpeg
I discussed this idea with DerAlder, who has been of great help to me with this project. I came up with the idea of using some very tough .140 wire, which I thinned down to .120. I then made two "C" shaped sections which slide in from either side to make up the shortage.
barrel shim.jpeg
I might shorten the "C"'s a bit to allow voids at the ends which would give me an area I could fill with weld to increase the strength. With the shims in place it gives me about 22 and 7/32" overall length.
overall length.jpeg
So what do the others out there think? Any ideas on how better to overcome the short nose piece?
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by Der Alder »

One other thing you could do is put weld bead around the end of the shroud and build it up to where you need it, square it back up, then weld it on.
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Re: Receivers from BRP

Post by rodom »

Well I forgot to tale pictures because I got busy and wanted to get something accomplished but here are some shots of the completed node piece.
nose piece 1.jpeg
nose piece 2.jpeg

Ok Now on to bigger and better things. And thanks again to Der Alder
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