Anyone built both a torched receiver (42/53) and a BRP shell semi? Which took longer to build? Assuming the shell version. The amount of cutting & grinding seems endless.
Anyone guestamate how many hours they had into each? If you only built one of either type, same question.
Thanks!
# of hours to complete build?
-
42rocker
- Administrator
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:03 pm
- Anti-spam: Mg42
- Location: Florida
Re: # of hours to complete build?
Looking forward to seeing some numbers on this also. However one thing -- what was the state of the cut up receiver to start with -- 3 cut - 4 cut - very badly cut up or ??
Interesting thread -- how to hear about some numbers.
Later 42rocker
Interesting thread -- how to hear about some numbers.
Later 42rocker
-
Bullwinkle
- Stabshauptmann
- Posts: 197
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Sunny South
Re: # of hours to complete build?
I have built multiple 3 and 4 cuts. Multiple FA and SA for a local Class III dealer and 07 SOT..no Shells so I can't commenet on that. EVERY single one has been different. Several had to be cut in half and rewelded due to warpage at various stages. (you can induce warps with GRINDING...found this out the hard way!!).I would guess between 20 to 40 hours if you include refinish. First one is DOUBLE, the learning curve build time line drops off quick after that!! Unfortunately, so much of the time is spread over weeks it is impossible to determine exactly. You will weld and grind, then try to fit parts, grind more...maybe weld/fill a few blems that will then require more grinding or induce a warp!!!....find a good day to test fire and find out you have "issues"....weld/grind/fab some more....go test fire...wait for NEW ORDERED parts you ground TOO MUCH OFF or ground on the wrong part!!! Install, go shoot and start all over again....then finally get her running. Time to refinish....THATs a day or two if you strip, blast, degrease and park. It's a week or THREE if you Rust blue....I would guess about 25-30hrs average if you include test fires and refinish. MOST TIME SPENT is definitely GRINDING...welding is a few hours. Grinding is a few days. Fitting and finishing is a few days depending on finish. troubleshooting is at LEAST a day or two. Some guns just refuse to function, regardless of how accurate the welds/grinding and part fitting is. Seems to be a tolerance stacking issue....those guns will eat 80-100 hours and cause a loss of sleep...eventually you will find the one TINY part that is the key to proper function. for ME...that part is ALWAYS the LAST piece I stumble upon!!!!
As a side note...(you got me thinking about builds!) Until I started BUILDING kits in the mid 1990s I assumed that firearms were PRECISION MACHINES that required tolerenaces of 1/1000...or better. After building and repairing AK, HKs, ARs, 1919s, Brens, MG42s and a MG34 or three plus a bunch of mil surp stuff...I have come to realize that the tolerances are for INTERCHANGABLE PARTS...not for proper function and feed (in a realative sort of way!) receiver OAL variations of 1/4-1/2 inch WILL RUN....crazy changes to trunnion placement , booster MIS-ALIGNMENT. You can make some crazy dimensional changes as long as you modify the associated part(s)....they will all shoot....It has taught me to try and build as close to original specs as possible BUT DONt SWEAT it if your a few 1/100ths or even 1/10ths off in SOME cases. If you MISSED IT and screwed up, the PARTS will TELL YOU!!! Metal on Metal will identify the issue immediately and SHOW YOU THE MISTAKE. the Human EYE and DYKEM BLUE or a Sharpie (poor mans Dykem) are your BEST alignment tools!!
HEADSPACE is a diffenerent matter entirely as NO DEVIATION is acceptable for SAFETY.
As a side note...(you got me thinking about builds!) Until I started BUILDING kits in the mid 1990s I assumed that firearms were PRECISION MACHINES that required tolerenaces of 1/1000...or better. After building and repairing AK, HKs, ARs, 1919s, Brens, MG42s and a MG34 or three plus a bunch of mil surp stuff...I have come to realize that the tolerances are for INTERCHANGABLE PARTS...not for proper function and feed (in a realative sort of way!) receiver OAL variations of 1/4-1/2 inch WILL RUN....crazy changes to trunnion placement , booster MIS-ALIGNMENT. You can make some crazy dimensional changes as long as you modify the associated part(s)....they will all shoot....It has taught me to try and build as close to original specs as possible BUT DONt SWEAT it if your a few 1/100ths or even 1/10ths off in SOME cases. If you MISSED IT and screwed up, the PARTS will TELL YOU!!! Metal on Metal will identify the issue immediately and SHOW YOU THE MISTAKE. the Human EYE and DYKEM BLUE or a Sharpie (poor mans Dykem) are your BEST alignment tools!!
HEADSPACE is a diffenerent matter entirely as NO DEVIATION is acceptable for SAFETY.
Mess with the Bull and you'll get the HORNS!
-
42rocker
- Administrator
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:03 pm
- Anti-spam: Mg42
- Location: Florida
Re: # of hours to complete build?
Bullwinkle
You state a lot of great points.
Later 42rocker
You state a lot of great points.
Later 42rocker
Re: # of hours to complete build?
Right on guys...another one of us that has inhaled the dust of a thousand Dremel discs!....Phil
Re: # of hours to complete build?
Outstanding post Bullwinkle!!! Says it all....the ins and outs, ups and downs..... Printing that for the work bench :-)
Thanks!
Thanks!
Re: # of hours to complete build?
Everything Bullwinkle said and.
It comes down to how good you feel about blissful ignorance. There are a bunch of issues that are not covered and they seem to go bang anyways for some amount of time.
One of the toughest things with the BRP shells is that they are provided "near net shape". The outside edges tend to be flat and it would be great to skim the inside mating edges but they are to finish width already. The lower platform really needs enough material for a skim as a reference also.
Know from the start that nothing fits, even if it's 2 mating parts from the same vendor. The tolerance stacks will bite you and need to be accounted for.
Example
New style trigger pak and new style B/C. Height from bottom of recvr to the flat on ejector rod = 1.33"
Height from top of trigger pak to top of hammer = 1.44.
Might be why there is a dimple in the primer but no ignition?
Putting a time frame on these would be tough. You might have 2 days getting the recup to fit with the primary pieces. Primary item is the rail in this case which is parallel and on center to the recvr c'line right?
This is one of those projects that would be tough to pay someone for. You both have a $ value in mind and that probably won't cover it for either of you.
It's going to be a long time, but you can do it.
It comes down to how good you feel about blissful ignorance. There are a bunch of issues that are not covered and they seem to go bang anyways for some amount of time.
One of the toughest things with the BRP shells is that they are provided "near net shape". The outside edges tend to be flat and it would be great to skim the inside mating edges but they are to finish width already. The lower platform really needs enough material for a skim as a reference also.
Know from the start that nothing fits, even if it's 2 mating parts from the same vendor. The tolerance stacks will bite you and need to be accounted for.
Example
New style trigger pak and new style B/C. Height from bottom of recvr to the flat on ejector rod = 1.33"
Height from top of trigger pak to top of hammer = 1.44.
Might be why there is a dimple in the primer but no ignition?
Putting a time frame on these would be tough. You might have 2 days getting the recup to fit with the primary pieces. Primary item is the rail in this case which is parallel and on center to the recvr c'line right?
This is one of those projects that would be tough to pay someone for. You both have a $ value in mind and that probably won't cover it for either of you.
It's going to be a long time, but you can do it.