More testing

[Pirate]

I made a new striker this morning, I eliminated the rear spring, it has a washer silver
brazed to the rear to act as a rear stop. I hardened the ends and installed it in the gun.
Went to the range and fired a couple of 2 round belts no problem. loaded a longer belt
and ran about 10 rounds and started having a problem with the hammer. The FAL trigger
travel is limited, and I didn't install a stop for the trigger, if the trigger is pulled to far it
doesn't engage on the disconnector. I tried to jury rig a stop, but gave up on that. I
was able to fire about 120 rounds by being careful of how hard I pulled the trigger. The
striker is a little short, I need to make it slightly longer and properly harden & temper
the ends. The hammer end started to mushroom and reliability decreased, I started to
get misfires.
All in all the FAL fcg is worth doing, however it really needs thicker side plates for the
hammer pin area and more room for the hammer. While the hammer can be made to fit
it would be better to do the extra work to make it right for reliability. after shooting this
thing I can see it will be a gun that I take shooting regulary, so having it work properly
is more important to me than looks.
The next step is to make a bushing for the back of the bolt to fit in the ejector sleeve
to guide the firing pin, the feed stud is not really big enough for a 3/16" hole.

[MauserMatt]

Sounds great! You shouldn't be too far to the end! still a little tinkering but that's what this is all about..

But now you've got me wondering.. Should I wait for panace to come out with a FAL grip stick or go with the AR one....

[Pirate]

MM, after working with both of them I am totally convinced the AR setup is a total waste
of time. At the moment I don't have any boxer primed ammo to try with the fal fcg, but
would venture to say it will work with that as well as berdan. 762 x 51 is doing drawings
for the mods and is waiting for the testing I am doing to finish them. You should be able
to do the mods yourself or buy a grip for the fal fcg should one become available.

[panaceabeachbum]

I agree with pirate on part of this , the ar trig group in the stock gstick housing is a waste of time because you lose half the mass of the hammer by the time you clearance it enough to clear the bottom of the bolt and reliabilty has to suffer. The ar15 fcg properly located as in my housing, (.10 lower than stock gstick will allow) works like a dream. Have no fear the ar15 fcg is a strong reliable system, I have a bolt action 50 cal thats been working fine for 11 years and has set off over 2k hard 50 primers with no problems all on a stock ar15 fcg with a heavy hamer spring as well as over a dozen other rifles using this fcg. As far as going thru 1/2 a dozen sears in a years time I would look for the mechanical obstruction, or misplaced pin hole thats causing the problem before blaming the trigger group, if this were a common problem that were a fault of the fcg it would have surfaced in the ar over the last 40 years.
Glad to see the fal fcg is working out well for you, have you figured out what keeps collapsing the fp springs? Is it the same scenario as before , were the fp is getting pushed to far forward?

[Pirate]

The problem with the springs is that they are cheap springs from the hardware store, not
good quality heavy duty gun type springs. After I determine the exact spring size I will source out some good ones.

[gunslingerdoc]

Pirate,

I ran into the same problem. I debated a pin thru the grip to limit travel but was worried I wouldnt get it in the right place. I found that by moving the trigger return spring/plunger unit forward I could solve the problem. Also, the sear needs to move freely and its spring needs exert less force if you will then the trigger return spring. So another 'fix' is to cut a few coils out of the sear spring.

[Intruder196]

The problem with the springs is that they are cheap springs from the hardware store, not
good quality heavy duty gun type springs. After I determine the exact spring size I will source out some good ones.

I ordered a AR15 FCG from Bushmaster.com and at the same time ordered their spring kit. All total cost me in the neighborhood of $35. Although I have yet to fire live rounds (havent found a place to shoot safely yet) it has consistantly popped primers. I have tried hard milsurp primers as old as 1935 and have not had any misfires or hangfires.

[Pirate]

firing primers is not the problem, extruded / blown primers are the problem. that is the reason for the heavy hammer spring.

[smoggle]

Check out McMaster-Carr. They have a lot of compresion springs listed. Different wire diameters and coil counts. The wire diameter is more important. That determines the strength more than coil count.

[TOM R]

also century spring http://www.centuryspring.com 1-800-237-5225

[Intruder196]

firing primers is not the problem, extruded / blown primers are the problem. that is the reason for the heavy hammer spring.

I must have misunderstood the message on "cheap hardware store springs" then.
I dont recall reading any posts here asking where to buy AR15 FCG or springs, so thought I would mention where I got mine. Unless Bushmaster runs to their local Ace Hardware store to fill spring orders, I will happily assume I bought good gun-quality springs.

The blown primer problem is the main reason why I opted out of setting mine up to shoot .308.
After seeing the troubles you (and even BRP) have had with .308, it's worth it to me to stick with 8mm.
I'm not knocking anybody who likes .308. But there are likely some potential builders browsing this board trying to decide which caliber to use.
It might be easier to for somebody who doesnt have your skills to stick with the caliber the MG42 was originally issued in.

[Pirate]

The springs I am referring to are the striker / firing pin springs. they were purchased at
the local hdwe store.

[gunslingerdoc]

Personally, I think the 8mm only or is best arguement is weak...MG1, MG2, MG3. Are there issues when using 8mm parts in a 308 gun? Yep. But what SA belt fed built from USED mixed and matched parts doesnt have issues? The 308 problems in a SA 42 are part and design issues, not a caliber/cartridge issue. I think blaming the 308 as a cartridge is a copout for not paying attention to parts/modification design/construction or a combination of them all.

I have seen several FA mg 42's run like raped apes with feedtray/barrel/booster swaps, even some post sample guns that are rewelds like we're doing here.

Remember we are changing the entire way this gun works without computer modeling, advanced engineering degrees and I would wager a less than complete understanding of the designers intentions. We are essentially designing a new system using parts from different guns that are used/abused and in some cases may be so out of spec that commie armories discarded them.

I was pretty happy that I was able to jig and weld a bunch of pieces of receiver scrap into a gun, modifiy another guns FCG, change the function from open bolt to closed bolt, design a firing pin mech and make it all work (granted it needs refinement and is not perfect, but it shoots) in my garage without a mechanical engineering degree, a machine shop, or dimensional plans.

When Im done it will fire reliably 308 and 8mm....it may be awhile, but I will get there. the Germans made the gun work in 308 so I think we can too.

This is not a rant to piss anybody off or slam anyone, I just dont want anyone discouraged from trying. I almost decided this was too much for my skill level and Im glad I got the balls to try it - I have learned alot, thought a lot, and generally increased my knowledge of firearms function. Its been an awesome experience.

[Pirate]

GSD, When I am finished with my gun it will work with both .308 or 8mm. The gun was originaly made for 8mm and personally I like 8mm better.
I have 2 .308 rifles and if I want to shoot .308 I use them. I like the 9mm because it is
a larger round with more noise & recoil and fitting for a gun this size. I like BIG, LOUD
guns with lots of recoil and muzzle blast. to me that is the fun of shooting. I love to take
my home built .50 bmg to the range and blast away. the noise and all the rest is what it is about
to me.
I built my gun with a TIG welder, drill press, some hand tools and lots of inginuity. It is in the
final phases of testing and soon will be finished. the fact I don't want to use .308 in my gun is up to me and really none
of your concern. It is not that I can't make it work in .308, it does, I like 8mm betteri

[Karbinator]

.....the fact I don't want to use .308 in my gun is up to me and really none
of your concern..........

We need to stop hurting pirate's feelings. He's the sensitive type.

[gunslingerdoc]

Pirate, no offense meant.

My comments were more directed toward the BRP 308 references which, IMO are more of an excuse than grounded in fact. Based on what Ive seen of your work and posts here, I would be very suprised if your gun didnt run both 308 and 8mm flawlessly when youre finished. What caliber you choose to shot it in is abosolutely none of my business nor concern.

I like 8mm, 308 and 50 bmg, as well.

All go better with tannerite of course!

[Intruder196]

Personally, I think the 8mm only or is best arguement is weak...MG1, MG2, MG3. Are there issues when using 8mm parts in a 308 gun? Yep. But what SA belt fed built from USED mixed and matched parts doesnt have issues? The 308 problems in a SA 42 are part and design issues, not a caliber/cartridge issue. I think blaming the 308 as a cartridge is a copout for not paying attention to parts/modification design/construction or a combination of them all.

I have seen several FA mg 42's run like raped apes with feedtray/barrel/booster swaps, even some post sample guns that are rewelds like we're doing here.

Remember we are changing the entire way this gun works without computer modeling, advanced engineering degrees and I would wager a less than complete understanding of the designers intentions. We are essentially designing a new system using parts from different guns that are used/abused and in some cases may be so out of spec that commie armories discarded them.

I was pretty happy that I was able to jig and weld a bunch of pieces of receiver scrap into a gun, modifiy another guns FCG, change the function from open bolt to closed bolt, design a firing pin mech and make it all work (granted it needs refinement and is not perfect, but it shoots) in my garage without a mechanical engineering degree, a machine shop, or dimensional plans.

When Im done it will fire reliably 308 and 8mm....it may be awhile, but I will get there. the Germans made the gun work in 308 so I think we can too.

This is not a rant to piss anybody off or slam anyone, I just dont want anyone discouraged from trying. I almost decided this was too much for my skill level and Im glad I got the balls to try it - I have learned alot, thought a lot, and generally increased my knowledge of firearms function. Its been an awesome experience.

GSD, like you I have learned alot from this build. My build started out as a 308 kit from IO. But after reading this http://www.brpguns.com/mg42semiowner.htm I decided to dump the 308 barrel and feed tray and go with 8mm. With this info in mind I wouldnt characterize the argument as weak.

I guess it really boils down to personal preference. I prefer 8mm.

[Pirate]

At this point in time my gun works better with .308 than 8mm, I am not sure of the problem
as the misfires were deeply dimpled. This is my first experience with the romanian ammo
and don't know how reliable it is. I have 2 different types of 8mm coming for further testing.
As for the .308 I think using the FAL fcg has solved the boxer primer blowout problems
and these guns will work reliably with any .308. there is still more testing to be done and
I have a better set of parts coming, as mine are well used and not as good as I would
normally use for a build, sepeially one as complex as this one.
I plan on having parts to shoot both calibers in my gun, but 8mm will be my main choice
as it packs more punch than the .308, but that is my personal prefrence, it doesn't mean
one is better than the other.

[MauserMatt]

Pirate I think you're problem with those dimpled 8mm rounds is just the ammo. Seems every time I go to the range I see a few Romanian rounds laying on the ground with dimpled primers. I've also heard of a few reports with those same problems. Still.. I'd like to hear which 8mm ammo you have the most success with as that's the caliber I want to use too.....

[Intruder196]

I have used Romanian 8mm in my TNW MG34 and a ac45 K43. It worked great in both guns. I really like the Romanian better than some of the other surplus 8mm we have had imported in recent years. I still have 5 unopened tins of the stuff.
I plan to use some for testing next weekend in my SA42. I did pull the bullets of 10 Romanian and 10 Original 1935 dated WW2 German 8mm and it popped the primers on all.