Adventures in TIG welding, Part I

propos · Post by **propos** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:32 pm

Well, guys, last night I made my first ever attempt at welding. Bear in mind, that I have never ever welded anything before. What an experience. I'm using the HF TIG welder that was recommended by Pirate. What a neat outfit.
I used a piece of 1 1/2" square tubing for my first attempt. I tried running a bead on it. I read where TIG welding is slow. Oh really? Damn, that steel heated up quick. Well, I blew a hole right through the steel before I got the hang of moving the tungsten in small circles and not in the same spot. Then I couldn't find the filler rod to dip into the puddle. Finally figured out where my left hand was and managed to dip the rod into the puddle. Well, ok, I said let's keep going. That worked for a few puddles and then I got the rod stuck. Kinda melted it off and tried again...and then I moved the tungsten too far away and broke the arc. Damn.
I was trying the "lay the cup on the metal and flip the helmet down as you strike an arc" method. Yeah, that worked real good. Boy, that arc is bright! So I cheated a little and laid the cup close, put the helmet down and then stuck an arc. Not the most effective way, but it worked. Somewhat. I think I may get one of those self-darkening helmets.
Well, I kept at it. Sorta got a system going. Burn a hole through, regroup and get a bead going, get the rod stuck, and break the arc. " I'm getting pretty good at this", I thought. Sure. Time for a break. I turned off the welder and leaned back. Phew. This welding thing is pretty nifty though. Then I heard a loud "POP". Oh crap, now what? Well, it turned out I had the steel tubing laying on the laminate countertop. Smart move. Forgot how hot steel gets when it turns red. Blew a nice chip out of the laminate. So I did what I should have done right from the start. I got two bricks and laid the steel on top of that.
Ok, break's over. Back to welding. I actually began to get the hang of making a puddle and dipping in the filler rod. Don't get me wrong. The welds looked like what my cat does on the floor when she gets the runs. But, what the hell, it's a start. I think I am going to enjoy this TIG welding. I really did enjoy the process. I figure I'll go through a couple of tanks of gas before I get somewhat good at it. No way am I going to touch a torch to my now, in the new inflated price of $1600, MG-42 receiver until I feel extremely confident in doing so.
Seriously guys, I am really enjoying learning a new skill. I am pleased with my first results. I don't think I did too bad for the first time welding. As soon as I can find the camera I will post some pictures of my modern art...that is, after my eyes stop burning. Well, onward and upward. Welding gods look out! Propos is on his way to welding greatness.

Post by **Sevo** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:59 pm

Its a start man.. Keep at it. Here are some tips

- get a auto dark helemt for sure.. HF has them for 49.00.. it is well worth it. Or get a gold lens even better as it allows you to see colors.

- Adjust your settings on the tig.. you may have it to high and that is why it is burning through. When you do your reciever have it around 4 to 5. Much higher than that is too hot.

Keep at it and you will get it. Try to find some sheet metal the same thicknes as your reciever and try on that. It will give you an idea of what temp setting you need

good luck

Sevo

propos · Post by **propos** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:52 pm

I had the setting at 4.5. I think I might set to just 4 and give that a try. The wall thickness of the tubing is about 5/64". I have some 1/8" angle that I can practice on. I will get the hang of this yet. Just need to practice, practice, practice. I'm going over to the scrap dealer next week. I need to get some copper for backer and some unistrut for a jig. I wil get some different thicknesses of scrap steel to practice on while I'm there. Learning to weld is like anything else you try to learn. I didn't learn to walk on the first attempt either. Anyway, I think this is a lot of fun. I am enjoying myself.

Post by **Sevo** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:59 pm

propos wrote:I had the setting at 4.5. I think I might set to just 4 and give that a try. The wall thickness of the tubing is about 5/64". I have some 1/8" angle that I can practice on. I will get the hang of this yet. Just need to practice, practice, practice. I'm going over to the scrap dealer next week. I need to get some copper for backer and some unistrut for a jig. I wil get some different thicknesses of scrap steel to practice on while I'm there. Learning to weld is like anything else you try to learn. I didn't learn to walk on the first attempt either. Anyway, I think this is a lot of fun. I am enjoying myself.

For the copper go to home depot and get copper coplings the 1 inch or bigger .. cut them inhalf and heat them up with a torch.. the metal will be soft and you can shape it to how ever you want it. It is very cheap and easy to do.

hope this helps

Sevo

propos · Post by **propos** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:32 pm

Thanks for the tip Sevo. I have some copper pipe that I might be able to use.

Post by **striker754** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:22 am

It's more expensive but a welder with a foot pedal is a bazillion times better than one without. The advantages of TIG is being able to control the heat. I know you can do it without a pedal, but its much easier with one. Just somethin to think about.

Don't cheap out on your eyes either. Being blind will suck ass.

propos · Post by **propos** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:46 am

How do you rig up a foot pedal to a Harbor Freight unit? I didn't know that you could do that. BTW, this is not the first time I ever got welding flash. When you work heavy construction, there is usually some one welding somewhere on the job. I don't know how many times I walked around a corner and bam! Right in the eyes. Unfortunately, my neck or eyelids don't move faster than the speed of light.
But I am definitely going to get a self-darkening welding helmet. I think that will make this endeavor a lot easier. One less thing to worry about. I can concentrate on making a bead not flipping the helmet down.

Post by **striker754** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:29 am

You can't put a pedal on a HF unit. I was just saying, that is the point of TIG, control, you get that through a foot pedal.

A self dark helmet is a good thing. Use about 20 cfh of gas.

propos · Post by **propos** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:52 am

I had the gas flow at between 15 and 20. I was checking out HF. They have the self darkening helmet on sale for $49.95. I am going to pick one of them up. There is a store near where I work. I'll stop over there and see if they have the model with the battery back-up. If not, I'll have to order it.
It would be nice to have a welder with the foot control but that is out of my reach at this time. And for all the welding that I intend to do it really is needed. Would be nice though.
I have a plan. After I can get a decent bead, I will practice tack welding two pieces and then finishing the weld. After that I will try welding two pieces that are the same distance apart as the cuts on the receiver. Sort of a mock-up of the real thing. Anyone know what alloy of steel the receivers are? Practicing on steel that is similar to the original would be better than using any old scrap steel. As I said before, I wil not attempt to weld my receiver until I am confident that I can do it without destroying it.

Post by **striker754** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:28 am

Put the gas 20-25cfh. Burn through is another advantage to the foot pedal. Alloy of steel isn't going to matter. Ya do the same things. Steel is steel. Dirty steel sucks. It splatters when its dirty and somehow the splatter always finds the tungsten. So clean the areas as much as you can.

Problem you are going to run into is dipping the tungsten in the weld pool because of the akward angles on the receiver. So be prepared to probably grind it a lot.

Any more questions just ask! I welded up my entire receiver today.

propos · Post by **propos** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:34 am

Yeah, I had that problem with dipping the tungsten into the puddle. I had to clean the tungsten several times. I bought 5 2% thoriated tungstens. I ground a point on 2 of them. Might as well do the other 3 on both ends. That way I can change them out without having to regrind and clean the one in the torch until later. BTW, how far out from the cup do you extend the tungsten? I had mine out 5/16". I read in the book I have on welding that the tungsten is to stick out 1/8" to 1/4". Did I have mine out to far?
Thanks for all the tips guys. They are really helping me get a feel for this welding process.
ETA: I also read the author said he used muriatic acid in a spray bottle to clean the joints before welding. I cleaned the filler rod with acetone before I used it. That would probably work on the joints as well as it will evaporate and not leave a film on the metal. When I worked in the lab for Warner-Lambert here in Lititz, I always rinsed my glassware in acetone after washing in water. That left the glass squeaky clean with no residue on the glass. Any residue from the previous test would give you false readings on your next test.

Post by **gunslingerdoc** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:13 pm

First get the helmet - worth their weight in gold, especially when youre learning. TIG is probably the hardest type of welding to learn first - keep that in mind and be patient.

Check your local votec - they may have a night class. That's what I did to learn it the right way. I could weld (or so I thought) before the class. I learned lots of things I thought Id never use and it keeps turning out that something I learned ends up useful. I even passed the certification test.

In the mean time buy a video and that will help - its hard to learn to do something just reading a book.

Learn to weld well and you'll find yourself making all kinds of stuff and fixing things you'd have thrown out. Its a great skill, but takes lots of practice.

As a wood worker I find I like welding easily as much.....Oh yeah and go ahead and buy that 4 inch angle grinder now - you'll be using that more than the welder at first!

Enjoy!

oldiron · Post by **oldiron** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:31 pm

I am not trying to be a creep or complainer but I see some penny wise pound foolish behavior here--Almost everyone on this board thinks little of spending at least $2500.00 to construct a semi sporter 42-- True?? Well take the hit and buy a good helmet that self darkens to protect your eyes-- I especially see foolish Behavior on Cable TV where the motorcycle tough guys Tig and Mig weld with out a helmet or weld with sunglasses on -- Stupidity hurts and this stupidity will eventually cause you severe eye damage. My advice is to buy a good helmet that covers your face tightly around the side up to your ears-- you can't go wrong with it; invest in a helmet and if $150.00 dollars is too rich for your blood you shouldn't be welding.

I have seen so many eye injuries from welding , grinding, general construction, mechanical work, etc; It has made me extremely careful about my irreplaceable eyesight-- even with all the protection you use the errant fragment still will get you when you least expect it. I was injured probably 35 years ago in a shop accident that was so far away from me it was incredible.

I was on my first job working a car dealership making big money as a mechanic ( pre auto service technician). A customer didn't agree with his bil and was arguing with the service manager across the shop about 100 feet away. the argument increased and the customer picked up some tools and threw them at the manager. A pair of pliers went across the shop bounced off of the car next to me and hit me in the right eye with enough force to cut my eye deeply--

I almost lost the sight in my right eye, endured 20 or so surgerys; was out of work for 1 1/2 years and lost my job also--All because of technicalities; and i didn't has a lawsuit either !!

So protect your eyes -- you just cannot order up another pair !!

propos · Post by **propos** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:52 pm

First off, let me say that I have spent over 30yrs in the construction industry. I have been everything from a lowly carpenter in the field to the project manager of a construction job. I have supervised multi-million dollar projects. So , I am no stranger to safety and injuries. I value my eyesight. Which is why I am not doing anymore welding until I get my self-darkening helmet from HF. Tried to buy one last night but they were pulling a switcheroo. On the website they had the helmet marked down from $69.95 to $49.95. Well, I thought I'll go over to the HF store near work and pick one up. They had them alright but the sale price was $99.95. Same helmet as on the website. WTF. I saw a sign for $49.95 and picked up that box. Wrong box. At checkout it was $99.95. Now, I had written down the stock number from the website and that number on the box was the same. 91212. Told the girl that but she said I was mistaken. Ok, I left and when I came home I went back to the website. Same helmet. On sale for $49.95. So I ordered it and took the hit for the shipping. So, what's going on? On the site the helmet lists for $69.95, but at the store it is on sale for $99.95. Something is screwy here. Anyway, I have a self-darkening helmet on the way.
To continue the sordid saga, I stopped at the steel yard for some uni-strut. "We don't have any," they said. Try Home Depot. ????? Or go to Lancaster Salvage for scrap steel and copper. Ok, it's not far away. So, I go into the office at Lancaster Salvage and ask the guy there if I can buy some scrap steel and ccpper. "No" he says. Well, why not. We only buy scrap. We can't sell it because of liability issues. I'm dumbfounded. You can't buy scrap at the junkyard? Am I on the same planet? Or did I get warped onto some screwball planet where the Mad Hatter is in charge.
So, in the end, I wound up at HD and bought what I needed there. I'm going to see if there are any welding classes around here that I can get into. Where do you buy a welding video? I WILL learn to weld one way or the other. "I have not yet begun to weld." "Don't give up the welder." And other battle cries.
ETA: Oh yeah. I did buy a 4" angle grinder and some discs. Hey, Oldiron, I've seen guys using a cutting torch without wearing any kind of eye protection. Talk about stupid. I was talking to a guy who was a machinist. He almost lost the sight in one eye by a small piece of metal that somehow made it around his safety glasses. Which is why I wear a full face shield when grinding and such. Here's another stupid trick. I was learning flint knapping in my primitive days. I always used that face shield. I've seen "experts" knapping flint without any eye protection. Imagine having a piece of obsidian in your eye. Obsidian scalpels are used in eye surgery. Sooo, think about what that piece of obsidian is doing to your eye while it is in there.

Post by **striker754** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:14 pm

oldiron wrote:I am not trying to be a creep or complainer but I see some penny wise pound foolish behavior here--Almost everyone on this board thinks little of spending at least $2500.00 to construct a semi sporter 42-- True?? Well take the hit and buy a good helmet that self darkens to protect your eyes-- I especially see foolish Behavior on Cable TV where the motorcycle tough guys Tig and Mig weld with out a helmet or weld with sunglasses on -- Stupidity hurts and this stupidity will eventually cause you severe eye damage. My advice is to buy a good helmet that covers your face tightly around the side up to your ears-- you can't go wrong with it; invest in a helmet and if $150.00 dollars is too rich for your blood you shouldn't be welding.

What TV are you watching? I always see tack welds made by closing eyes or looking away. But serious welding with helmets.

Me? Im not trusting my eyes to a cheap ass Harbor Freight helmet. Of course then again I have differing views on a lot of things on here including the welder. They're not my eyes! *shrug*

Post by **gunslingerdoc** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:02 pm

The cheaper your equipment the sooner it will fail. I too am often amazed when I see guys buy a 10K+ bike and then scour a store looking for the least expensive helmet. Protect those parts that are irreplaceable. Most of the less expensive helmets seem to work just fine. Just make sure you can take them back if you find they dont work for you. Personally I have a hobart helmet that was made to entice folks to buy an autodarkening helmet. I paid around $150. My 4 year old cracked the glass a month or so ago and I went 'shopping' for a replacement screen. Turns out Hobart quit making my helmet because they were loosing $ at the price they were selling it - one of those get people raving about our helmet and then jack up the price - I got lucky and they replaced mine for free, but otherwise to get a similar performing one it was going to be around $230 or so.

The more expensive helmets tend to be much lighter - if youre welding long this really becomes noticeable as more or less head and neck fatigue (depends on cheap and heavy or ligher and more expensive).

Youre right on track with saftey - Im amaxed how blood/fluids get around my prescription GOGGLES and face shield when it happens in surgery, but it still occassionally happens.

Check on Ebay for welding videos or google it. There are lots out there.

propos · Post by **propos** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:05 pm

Ok, so wha't wrong with a HF helmet? I would think that glass is glass. Has anyone done an analysis on the glass in various helmets. How many guys here use a HF helmet. The one I have now is made by Lincoln. Or is it? How do I ,or anyone for that matter , really know where the glass in their helmet was made. If I decide that it does not fill my needs or work properly than I will replace it with a different brand. It's that simple. I am trying to make this project a very pleasant and informative one. Not see how much money I can spend to do it. If that were the case I would buy one already made. And one thing else. I am not into denigrating someone's choice of equipment. We all have to live within a budget. I am just glad that I can afford my cheap welder and helmet. Believe me, if I had the money to spend on a top of the line welder I would. However, I am not in competition with anyone to see which one of us can buy the most expensive piece of equipment. This is a hobby for me. Nothing more. I spend what I can afford for this hobby. I have other responsibilities that take precedence over this hobby.

Post by **striker754** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:10 pm

If it works for you thats fine. I'm not doggin on it. Just not for me. Sight and hearing are just about the only thing on the human body that can't be replaced. Just get what you can afford, cause you get what you pay for.

oldiron · Post by **oldiron** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:49 pm

Ask any optomologist -- you may as well keep your eyes open; the same damage that you get from looking at any arc; wether it was plain old arc welding; mig, or tig welding is the same -- without a helmet and the optical barrier the damage may be just a little lessened but it is there nevertheless-- I have personally taken several individuals to the hospital that were using dark sunglasses to weld and when they are done their epidural facial skin burns were very painful-- They say they were just doing a little welding and their faces reminded me of a plain old raccoon-- Third degree sunburn except where the glasses are--

If you don't believe me or your optomologist just weld away and when you become so blind that you can't see a foot in front of your face-=- I don't know how to explain it any better. I once had a electrical power worker who was about to do some checking on an overheating transformer-- Just as the bucket truck brought him up even with the transformer and he was about 10-15 feet away it shorted and arcked; he had third degree burns on his upper body; his hair was all burned off; But the safety glasses he was wearing worked perfectly although they were pretty melted; he lived; scarred up but he was not blind--

These ""COOL"" guys are on TV do a nasty thing to people; they are not really doing what they should be-- setting a good safe example would be better than what they are doing !!!

There is no such thing as ""CHEAP"" or ""EXPENSIVE"" when it comes to safety apparatus-

Post by **gunslingerdoc** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:26 am

I think as long as welding meets osha specs its fine. Some times though 'standards' are minimiums - ie barely acceptable. Truthfully, I dont know what they are I just know my helmet exceeds 'em. the more expensive the helmet the lighter, more user friendly they generally are - like anything though user friendly is in the eye of the user.

I have a 'cheap' electronic helmet I use as back-up, and for ranch welding. It gets bounced around, neglected and abused. If it brakes (and it has - the strap), I can easily and cheaply replace it. If I have to weld for hours, I use my good helmet since its much more comfortable and lighter. I also have a standard glass helmet - I now hate using it since using an auto darkening helmet.

Your doing fine the way youre going about it. Hey, you might want to ask around and see if any of your neighbors, friends, co-workers weld so you can get some hands on instruction. Welding is easy to learn to do wrong - I learned all kinds of stupid, dangerous, bad habits from my 'farm training' with a stick welder. Now that I have an idea what Im doing its amazing some of the crappy, poor welds I used to trust. As Im sure you know its easier to learn to do it right than unlearn doing it wrong...Just advice from someone that's done it wrong a time or 2 -

.

www.MG42.us

Adventures in TIG welding, Part I

Adventures in TIG welding, Part I

Self Darkening Helmets !!

Re: Self Darkening Helmets !!

TV ?? No reality TV sucks !!!